Thank you for the feedback, I'd love to see your thing and what angle you're focusing on. I see what you mean, but I've never trusted Claude to do analysis. And I'm still only trusting it to help me build acceptance criteria that I can validate against a multitude of region-specific sources for different data points:
- host plants (e.g. European caterpillar counts via Gaytán et al: onlinelibrary.wiley.com)
- food sources
- pollen interactions
- broadly documented wildlife & plant dependencies
- etc
What is your skepticism based on? If you've identified a gap I'd be very obviously interested to close it. But if you think I'm allowing Claude to editorialize without verification, then I can assure you I'm not. I've definitely caught it trying to skip steps and "leave out" verification steps, especially for new region coverage where we have insufficient data for a clear cut boolean answer.
And like everything, I keep expanding the rings of what I cross-reference for each region. Hopefully the more keen eyes on this project will mean folks can spot fallacies and holes. But to be frank, I'm in this for the long run so I very mulch welcome it :-)
PS: github.com/olivierlacan/indigene/blob/main/DATA_S… might be a good one to focus on if you hadn't picked it up yet
Should be addressed soon: indigene#262
Sure. But this same argument goes for every open source project ever built. At some point some convergence is in our best interest one some things, or we all burn tokens recreating the same thing until the planet is mostly data centers.
You'll note I'm not reinventing things, most of this project is connecting dots between open science and already amazing projects like iNaturalist. But if you're familiar with it, you might also be frustrated with its extremely simplistic approach to identifying natives.
The reason I suspect is why your last point exists, except I've spent an inordinate amount of time and effort ensuring that Indigene doesn't claim a plant is native to a region (vs. a whole continent) when it's not. That makes it less comprehensive than other resources, but unless you can point to specific issues it doesn't make it less reliable.
I can't make you care, but if you might this is where I'd look if I were skeptical:
indigene.app
indigene.app
github.com/olivierlacan/indigene/blob/main/DATA_S…
indigene.app (example of a status conflict)
github.com/olivierlacan/indigene/blob/main/app/sc… (which is what does this status checek)
And if you care to call me out on any GIS mistakes (given my own lack of expertise in that area) this where you're likely to find mistakes: github.com/olivierlacan/indigene/blob/main/app/sc…
Yeah, that's not great. You missed "Don't want to use your location? Search by town or pick a region instead." because it's lower on the page (see edit below for fix).
I specifically limited map levels to reduce the app's size and that's a big downside.
I don't get your location, your browser does since everything is client-side by the reverse geocoding API definitely does for the map (and you can't take my word for it) so let me see if I can make this less annoying.
No point of trying to be privacy-conscious if the alternative is a pain in the ass, no argument there.
Edit: should be resolved via indigene#253
Show HN: Indigene – native plants for where you stand
Back when I lived in Central Florida, it took me years to learn what native plants could benefit wildlife and the local ecosystem as I slowly replaced parts of my yard to make it more resilient to drought. After moving to Seattle a few years ago, I had to start all of that from scratch. LLMs made the process a bit easier but I still had to routinely ask the same kinds of questions over and over, despite being far more familiar with native plants these days and leaning more on native plant societies and botany resources like Doug Tallamy and Joey Santore whose excellent Crime Pays But Botany Doesn't site was recently posted here[1].
A good friend was visiting from Orlando over the summer and told me she was struggling to decide what to plant in her own yard despite her landlord being ok with it. That was enough of an excuse for me to kick off work on Indigene, which is aimed at giving folks just-in-time knowledge about what to plant based on their locale, sun exposure, soil conditions, and their own ecosystem support goals.
Candidly, as many of us have, I've also leaned heavily on LLMs (mostly Claude here) to bring this to life. Largely to avoid saying demonstrably false things, which might be an absurd statement. You can find the GitHub repository[2] a wild array of open data sources I've dug out and cross-referenced to ensure mistakes and hallucinations are unlikely to survive for long. But given today's Indigenous Peoples Day I figured it was past time I shared the projects and invited more scrutiny.
Being the Keep a Changelog guy, you can bet it has extensive release notes[3] generated from the project changelog. Those are also parsed into feature-specific guides so each also lists relevant recent updates.
Lastly, I put together a post[5] that goes into a bit more detail on the story of the project and what I've learned along the way.
I really, really hope people here (and beyond) find it as useful and enlightening as I do.
PS: before it comes up, all the LLM usage for the project is documented[6] and used as warning system in every PR but I think there's a lot more I can do to further reduce it
[1]: news.ycombinator.com
[2]: olivierlacan/indigene
[3]: indigene.app
[4]: indigene.app
[5]: constantvariable.net
[6]: indigene.app
2 points
Mentions
Thank you for the feedback, I'd love to see your thing and what angle you're focusing on. I see what you mean, but I've never trusted Claude to do analysis. And I'm still only trusting it to help me build acceptance criteria that I can validate against a multitude of region-specific sources for different data points: - host plants (e.g. European caterpillar counts via Gaytán et al: onlinelibrary.wiley.com) - food sources - pollen interactions - broadly documented wildlife & plant dependencies - etc What is your skepticism based on? If you've identified a gap I'd be very obviously interested to close it. But if you think I'm allowing Claude to editorialize without verification, then I can assure you I'm not. I've definitely caught it trying to skip steps and "leave out" verification steps, especially for new region coverage where we have insufficient data for a clear cut boolean answer. And like everything, I keep expanding the rings of what I cross-reference for each region. Hopefully the more keen eyes on this project will mean folks can spot fallacies and holes. But to be frank, I'm in this for the long run so I very mulch welcome it :-) PS: github.com/olivierlacan/indigene/blob/main/DATA_S… might be a good one to focus on if you hadn't picked it up yet
Should be addressed soon: indigene#262
Sure. But this same argument goes for every open source project ever built. At some point some convergence is in our best interest one some things, or we all burn tokens recreating the same thing until the planet is mostly data centers. You'll note I'm not reinventing things, most of this project is connecting dots between open science and already amazing projects like iNaturalist. But if you're familiar with it, you might also be frustrated with its extremely simplistic approach to identifying natives. The reason I suspect is why your last point exists, except I've spent an inordinate amount of time and effort ensuring that Indigene doesn't claim a plant is native to a region (vs. a whole continent) when it's not. That makes it less comprehensive than other resources, but unless you can point to specific issues it doesn't make it less reliable. I can't make you care, but if you might this is where I'd look if I were skeptical: indigene.app indigene.app github.com/olivierlacan/indigene/blob/main/DATA_S… indigene.app (example of a status conflict) github.com/olivierlacan/indigene/blob/main/app/sc… (which is what does this status checek) And if you care to call me out on any GIS mistakes (given my own lack of expertise in that area) this where you're likely to find mistakes: github.com/olivierlacan/indigene/blob/main/app/sc…
Yeah, that's not great. You missed "Don't want to use your location? Search by town or pick a region instead." because it's lower on the page (see edit below for fix). I specifically limited map levels to reduce the app's size and that's a big downside. I don't get your location, your browser does since everything is client-side by the reverse geocoding API definitely does for the map (and you can't take my word for it) so let me see if I can make this less annoying. No point of trying to be privacy-conscious if the alternative is a pain in the ass, no argument there. Edit: should be resolved via indigene#253
Show HN: Indigene – native plants for where you stand Back when I lived in Central Florida, it took me years to learn what native plants could benefit wildlife and the local ecosystem as I slowly replaced parts of my yard to make it more resilient to drought. After moving to Seattle a few years ago, I had to start all of that from scratch. LLMs made the process a bit easier but I still had to routinely ask the same kinds of questions over and over, despite being far more familiar with native plants these days and leaning more on native plant societies and botany resources like Doug Tallamy and Joey Santore whose excellent Crime Pays But Botany Doesn't site was recently posted here[1]. A good friend was visiting from Orlando over the summer and told me she was struggling to decide what to plant in her own yard despite her landlord being ok with it. That was enough of an excuse for me to kick off work on Indigene, which is aimed at giving folks just-in-time knowledge about what to plant based on their locale, sun exposure, soil conditions, and their own ecosystem support goals. Candidly, as many of us have, I've also leaned heavily on LLMs (mostly Claude here) to bring this to life. Largely to avoid saying demonstrably false things, which might be an absurd statement. You can find the GitHub repository[2] a wild array of open data sources I've dug out and cross-referenced to ensure mistakes and hallucinations are unlikely to survive for long. But given today's Indigenous Peoples Day I figured it was past time I shared the projects and invited more scrutiny. Being the Keep a Changelog guy, you can bet it has extensive release notes[3] generated from the project changelog. Those are also parsed into feature-specific guides so each also lists relevant recent updates. Lastly, I put together a post[5] that goes into a bit more detail on the story of the project and what I've learned along the way. I really, really hope people here (and beyond) find it as useful and enlightening as I do. PS: before it comes up, all the LLM usage for the project is documented[6] and used as warning system in every PR but I think there's a lot more I can do to further reduce it [1]: news.ycombinator.com [2]: olivierlacan/indigene [3]: indigene.app [4]: indigene.app [5]: constantvariable.net [6]: indigene.app